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User talk:Purple Iris
Hello, Welcome to , Here we provide a user-friendly experience and good time. We hope you make lots of edits and help the Wiki. Welcome. ;) Need help? Leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! Welcome and enjoy the Wiki! ---- Reply to John List of Counterarguments Before I get into this, let me just say that you seem a bit frustrated from the mere fact that my Tier list uses a fictional perspective, which uses logic rather than science. All scientific conclusions are based on inductive reasoning, the conclusion by which matter is neither created nor destroyed does not account for all the fictional beings existent in all the universes people create (because the abilities and powers created by people are derived by imagination, obviously), and you never know whether any new energy people like me design, exist for real or not. Therefore a logical perspective must be taken in fiction, rather than a scientific one (since in any case, things in fictional universes can neither be proven nor disproven, for there is no way for you to prove whether Conservation of Energy applies in fictional universes). While I understand your desire to create a universe conforming to scientific methodology, I believe it best that you do not undermine the fictional aspect of fiction itself, i.e the defying of physical laws in extremely subtle, non-consequential ways. For example, the existence of conceptual beings in fiction are undefined by any scientific standards and their capacity to do things is infinite, even if they venture to what should be scientifically impossible (for example, God using his power to make himself your "Tier 1" and destroying your universe, which should be impossible by your definition). Anyhow, without further ado, I shall go into the counterargument I have composed. 1) I see your ad hominem towards my supposed lack of knowledge, but I shall forgo it. By the way, your characters travelling at instantaneous speed would require infinite energy, so theoretically your Tier 5 being can destroy the universe, just saying. Also, the universe is finite, just saying. 2) I did not mention at all that black holes require infinite energy to create. Simply they be used by solar-system destroyers to attempt to destroy the universe, and what I refer to in this case is the material universe, since, on a common-sense perspective, space cannot be destroyed through any known means (in fact nothing is known to "affect" space as of yet, since space is quite literally, nothing) 3) If the 4th Dimension is where matter is neither created nor destroyed, isn't it like our current 3D universe where matter is neither created nor destroyed, and resides in space? I do not understand your 4th Dimension's difference from our own, since it is quite apparent that we can tell what space (nothing) is, such that there would be no need for this 4th-Dimensional classification. Also, since you agree with me that space cannot be destroyed by any known means, how can infinite energy do it? Plus, how can nothing be part of the universe? Lastly, can you tell me what the "end of space" looks like? Since at any point in time it is expanding, and is thus finite, the universe would indeed have a set boundary, and therefore a fine line between what you have defined as "space being part of the universe" and "space that is not the universe". As you have defined it in such a way, how would the boundaries between these 2 be set? 4) If all matter is "destroyed" by my definition (the creation of black holes to absorb and assimilate everything in creation), why would your rationale behind the fact that matter and energy can still exist apply? Since, according to you, matter can neither be created nor destroyed. Therefore, if everything were in the supermassive black hole, nothing would be outside, and it can be safely regarded as "destroyed" in my sense. 5) You seem to be misunderstanding my implication. I am saying that Saiyans (an example of a creature), eating regular human food (a natural source), somehow gains enough energy to destroy planets, stars and solar systems. If they follow the Law of Conservation of Energy, this would be impossible. It seems that you misunderstood my meaning behind why the laws of physics have been broken. Because their source of energy clearly does not match the output they have shown. Unless, of course, you wish to imply that Ki is Dark Energy, or that their stomachs are actually nuclear fission reactors, then by all means tell me that it is such. 6) So now you allow for magic and believe that you can account for it in a scientific universe. Logically that would be impossible, since, for the first part, spirits are not physical beings, and therefore not constrained by physical law. Therefore, being immaterial, the fact that your spirits can affect material things would not make sense, for how could something non-physical, affect the physical world? By what means would this be achieved? Also, since they are not physical, they will not be bound by physical law (as defined by scientists), and if they were to have any physical effect on the physical world, they would technically be creating energy and matter in said universe. Personally, I find it rather sketchy that you would allow magic in your universe, since anything magic would do would be acausal, and therefore not, at all, be bound by physical law, since it isn't physical in the first place. Unless of course you believe magic and spirits to be somehow physical in that they are "energy beings harnessing dark matter", then by all means. 7) So the energies aren't connected in a regular way, fine. But the thing is, anything which can affect space (nothing), at all, could and would likely directly affect other universes in the theoretical multiverse (since it uses infinite energy). Plus, the fact that this is fiction means that your words are ultimately naught, since the basis for your argument is that mine is unscientific, and therefore supposedly inferior, or "stupid". Please understand the difference between science and logic, before telling me, a wikia user, that the tier system I have designed is "incredibly stupid" and a "terrible idea". I presume, supposedly, that you are of the proponent that anime such as Gurren Lagann (featuring universe-sized robots, pocket dimensions, and probability manipulation), is incredibly stupid, does not deserve to exist, and that you cannot imagine any person in the world to take Gurren Lagann seriously as an anime worthy of watching (whatwith its use of manliness as a source of power). Lastly, I never did claim to be proposing a Tier system which will fit coherently with science, that was all your expectation, and needless to say, that was not what I was trying to do. I was merely trying to classify beings in fiction itself. For example, Elder God Demonbane, is a bonafide Tier 5 being in my Tier list and definitely beyond a Tier 10 in yours. And Alissa, may I ask that you, as an anime and manga watcher, try to understand the difference between science and logic? Your mentor here seems to not understand the difference, thereby perpetuating this misunderstanding that what I am saying is supposedly wrong and stupid (which would be, if I were using a scientific basis for my tier system in the first place, of which I am not). Geti186 (talk) 15:27, January 19, 2015 (UTC) Hey Alissa, Have you looked through what I wrote yet? I was thinking you were going to reply Geti186 (talk) 14:15, January 26, 2015 (UTC) It seems you misunderstand some parts of my model... What I mean by my model is that the Laws of Physics (as defined in the real world) can still play a role in the fictional universe. In a fictional universe following logic anything can be created, therefore whatever your mentor said can also be placed under my definition of universes (i.e things can still be sacrificed to achieve a greater power, which is what you want, right?) Also, might I ask if you have shown him my reply? Is there any way I can reach him via Wikia? Geti186 (talk) 12:45, January 27, 2015 (UTC) So have you shown him my reply? o.O I was kinda expecting that he would continue to refute me Geti186 (talk) 14:09, January 28, 2015 (UTC)